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Returning to Success: Can MSU Football Get Out of its Own Way?
May 4th, 2017 by Jeffrey Lubeck

Do we have our head in the sand?

A few days ago I proposed – as a joke – to 79′ that we should add the phrase “3-9” to the words and phrases that are banned from use on this site.  That way we could avoid, in part, re-living last football season.

With Demetrius Cooper apparently violating his plea deal with law enforcement (arrested for consuming alcohol in public as a minor), does it not feel as if MSU Football cannot get out of the way of itself in its desire to return to good standing and a good record.

In the case of Cooper, some would argue the law breaking act is a small and petty violation – ticky tac stuff.  They may or may not be correct.  However, Cooper and MSU worked a deal to keep him out of the legal penalty. And the deal: he would not drink alcohol as a minor. So Demetrius Cooper did not honor the deal or stay true to his word.

I believe there is a large consensus of membership that believe Mark Dantonio as Head Coach is about as good as its gets (e.g., winner, straight shooter, respectful). I am one of them.

However, the MSU Football story-line for some time now is: losers on the field, multiple arrests for violation of the law, multiple criminal investigations for violation of the law, and sudden departures from the program by multiple starters/likely starters for self-admitted improper behavior.  Given these facts and their almost unending occurrence, is it fair to say MSU Football is a program that is out of the control of its Head Coach? Answering yes, would have seemed implausible to me a while ago, but now I am not so certain.

Your thoughts?

 


56 Responses  
  • 79 Spartan writes:
    May 4th, 201712:37 pmat

    Clearly the answer is no. The head coach is in complete control.

    Maybe I am the one visually rendered in the photo above, however, this may be a watershed moment for the program, the culmination of all the rubbish taking place.

    That’s my hope.

  • Ben Green writes:
    May 4th, 20175:20 pmat

    It is uncertain if the program is out of control even though it would appear so. Time will tell. It seems apparent, however, that Dantonio has not made sufficient impact on every player in the program.

    IE Demetrius Cooper. Demetrius, are you kidding me? Do you have NO self control or common sense? You are not only jeopardizing your career at MSU, but your NFL prospects as well.

    To all players: If you want to remain on the program you WILL comply with the law and ALL rules. A zero tolerance policy is in place. MSU and the Spartan football program will NOT be defamed (again).

    • Ben Green writes:
      May 4th, 20175:29 pmat

      Curious why by comment is awaiting moderation. Maybe the words, “law” or “rules” or the phrase “zero tolerance” are verboten.

      • Ben Green writes:
        May 4th, 20175:30 pmat

        Need help…comment(s) (curiously) awaiting moderation.

        • Jeffrey Lubeck writes:
          May 4th, 201710:20 pmat

          I am looking at pending and Trash. Nothing found!

          • Ben Green writes:
            May 5th, 20177:50 amat

            Thanks Jeff. Someone must have approved my comments. All were pending.

  • USMC Retired writes:
    May 4th, 20175:31 pmat

    After the 2016 season, the only way to proceed is UP. (now, are there bumps along the way – seems so), but positively forward is a necessity. It would appear at 2,345 blush at last year performance that the Senior Class was not the only group on players who had the ‘been there done that’ approach to the 2017 season. As Diana Ross sang – ‘we gotta get on down, get on down the road”

  • Ben Green writes:
    May 4th, 20175:33 pmat

    Comments awaiting moderation. Thanks in advance for your help.

  • USMC Retired writes:
    May 4th, 20175:33 pmat

    As a light terribly humorous aside I will point to a subject that has been covered on this site previously, but never with so much humor:

    Only $495 for Lonzo Ball’s first Big Baller Brand signature shoe

  • USMC Retired writes:
    May 4th, 20175:35 pmat

    On BTN Blue Jays take on the Acorns in the 2nd Semi-final: Md stomped (was not as close as the 2 goal score) JJ’s favorite team in the opener

  • USMC Retired writes:
    May 4th, 20176:35 pmat

    JHU getting beaten handily by the Acorns – NO goalie for JHU, wow!

  • JerseyJohn writes:
    May 4th, 201710:07 pmat

    now it appears that max bullough is on the juice. banned for 4 games.

    I was slightly perturbed a few years ago when coach D didn’t take the bull by the horns and name connor cook a team captain. don’t care about the team vote, we saw how worthless last year’s captains were.

    hollis may want to keep narduzzi engaged and at arms length, if possible. if what I think is about to happen concerning Curtis Blackwell, a housecleaning may be coming sooner than we think.

  • USMC Retired writes:
    May 5th, 20179:59 amat

    OK so here’s a good article about the Iowa would be walk-on kicker who opted to take an MSU Scholarship. Couple of points maybe germane: he’s the #6 kicker in the country and if the perception by players of the program is as bad as it is here at TUS, why would he sign with the Spartans?

    http://michiganstate.247sports.com/Article/Cole-Hahn-a-senior-kicking-specialist-from-West-Des-Moines-IA-Va-52626442

    IDIT, folks, Bad apples have left (and I mean the Senior Class)

    • JustABum writes:
      May 5th, 201711:57 amat

      Hahn stated the free ride versus walk-on had some influence.

      • JustABum writes:
        May 5th, 201712:09 pmat

        Seeing that my comments are subject to fact checking, here’s the quote and article:

        “For me it was a pretty simple decision,” Hahn said. :It was a scholarship versus a preferred walk-on. There was no way that I could pass up a full ride.”

        http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2017/05/michigan_state_opportunity_for.html#incart_river_index

        I am not a Dantonio Doubter. Coach D is a winner, well liked and respected by his players, However, money and a friendship with the incoming QB from his high school may reduce any perceived risk.

        • USMC Retired writes:
          May 5th, 201712:51 pmat

          What I hear you saying (to use that old ‘I’m not arguing’ relationship carrot) is that his friendship and the free ride over road the perception that has been formed here at TUS that the Spartan Program is soon to be back to the to the days of John L Smith.

          • Jeffrey Lubeck writes:
            May 5th, 20172:39 pmat

            And when does it drop to the Muddy Water level?

          • JustABum writes:
            May 5th, 20174:11 pmat

            You & JL heard wrong if you thought I said MSU is on the verge becoming a team that quits like JLS’s last years or Muddy’s outclassed teams due to NCAA near death penalty sanctioned teams.

            I am pretty sure Hahn said he de-committed iowa and choose MSU because he was offered a full ride, Wouldn’t you feel more comfortable going to college and not having to worry about the cost of the education and knowing a teammate?

  • Jeffrey Lubeck writes:
    May 5th, 20172:37 pmat

    After careful consideration, I am about to purchase a new pair of golf shoes.

    I have narrowed my golf shoe choices down to three – the Lorenzo Ball Hole-in-One-and-Done, The JustABum Grace-as-You-Golf and the Ivanka Trump Score-with-TheMarine-Swing.

    Thoughts, reviews, recommendations?

    • USMC Retired writes:
      May 5th, 20174:18 pmat

      Wouldn’t really recommend any of them: 1st pair is being recalled because of lack of interest by anyone who actually playes golf, the 2nd pair is being recalled for non compliance with the 2018 Rules of Golf and the last is imaginary

      • JustABum writes:
        May 5th, 20174:54 pmat

        Never cheated at golf, I will surely leave before being recalled.

  • 89 Chemistry writes:
    May 5th, 20172:39 pmat

    Poor guy. You have Posted for the 13th consecutive time. I was going to say what I have to say below (in a separate Comment) as a new Post, but your broader focus should gather more responses than my imminent focus on two players.

    “[I]s it fair to say MSU Football is a program that is out of the control of its Head Coach?” I would not go that far at this point, and add that plenty of things are beyond a head coach’s control. There seems to have been an increase of bad-actors-about-to-emerge that have chosen to accept MSU scholarship offers. (I phrase it thus because State, like most programs, offers several scholarships for each available chit.) It may be tempting to conclude that MSU is attracting more behavioral self-disqualifiers because it is attracting “better” talent, but the average star ranking of the offenders (even assuming that the Title IX Three were all 4-star recruits) is about the same as MSU’s 2013-2016 Class average. About half of the apparent problem players committed before Curtis Blackwell’s hire by my count the results cannot be entirely pinned on him, either. Let us see what the program’s investigators report before suggesting a loss of executive control pertaining to off-field matters.

    As for 2016 (and 12/31/2015) on the field, my take is that it was only one year with, among other things, the unlikely combination of losing the top three QBs to injury. I think 2017 will be difficult for a variety of reasons; I currently am projecting 5-7 pending more positive evidence for MSU (which might not present itself until late September) or opponents’ downgrading. But much of what renders such a dismal projection is beyond a head coach’s ability to control, too.

    Jeff, are you saying that perhaps Dantonio should now be ushered out? I certainly cannot go there yet. I want to see what comes of the program’s investigations first, unless they persist into 2018. I suppose a 1-11 or 0-12 result in 2017 would be actionable, but MSU has enough raw talent to make that possibility remote. With the program’s integrity cleared, and the current bad-actor fever having run its course, the tale of 2018 will determine whether Dantonio should be stopped from leading MSU through a half-decade like Duffy’s and Perles’ final coaching years.

    • Ben Green writes:
      May 5th, 20175:08 pmat

      Good points, 89 Chem. Thanks.

  • 89 Chemistry writes:
    May 5th, 20172:44 pmat

    What I was going to say before Jeff got us thinking about the bigger picture:

    Cooper is from Chicago. One might wonder if he is going to cross state lines before his court date next week like Auston Robinson did recently. (For all I know, he does not have an active apartment lease between Finals (which ended today) and football camp (late July?).) Chris Solari pointed out that the incriminating Cooper video was not time-stamped; “It would have had to be proven to have been made after March 16 when he made his plea deal for it to be relevant.” My guess, though, is that his time remaining as a Spartan will not extend into August.

    The loss of Cooper could not be spun as good news for 2017. He led MSU in sacks (including sacks per start) last year and had the most defensive production points of any D-lineman except McDowell in 2016. He has the most career sacks and tackles for loss of anyone currently on the roster. He is the only DE that has played in ten or more games; the only D-lineman with more than three career starts; and the only defender besides Chris Frey with more than eight career starts. As one of only eight seniors on scholarship for the 2017 season, the bar he had to clear for a leadership role was relatively low — and complying with his plea deal would have assisted in that pursuit if it was one he was interested in.

    (The term “seniors” above excludes fourth-year players that were redshirted. There are 15 of those on scholarship.)

    While on the subject of Spartans at risk of no longer being Spartans, I may as well mention that Vayante Copeland (one of those redshirted juniors) has started more career games than any other DB. He earned more defensive production points in 2016 than any non-linebacker currently on the roster. He is the only remaining Spartan with more than one career interception. While Justin Layne might overtake Copeland at some point, it would be better for MSU if Copeland passes his “diversionary program” (whatever that is) this time around.

    With finals over, it seems probable to me that any indictments for the Title IX Three will be postponed until preseason football camp starts and the players are all back in Ingham County.

  • 89 Chemistry writes:
    May 5th, 20172:50 pmat

    I saw thsi from JaB in the Trash. I think I have cleaned it up for publication; the banned word has been euphemized and italicized by me. I aim to comment on JaB’s Comment tomorrow:

    Can MSU get out of it’s own way? This thread looks like a lightening rod designed for me to stay clear of commenting. Nah, I won’t keep my opinion to myself.

    I agree with many TUS members who believe Mark Dantonio is a winner, straight shooter and respectful. Unfortunately, the success of the teams that rose from the ashes of the Rather Hall Brawl may not appear again without a blood letting. I say this because those the composition of the coaching staff that created the 2010-2014 teams that featured dominant defenses changed. MSU’s D was led by a fiery in Coach Narduzzi. Two years removed, the discipline and edge of Narduzzi’s defenses appears to have disappeared. I think it trickled down from on the field to off the field behaviour.

    ON FIELD statistical performance declined especially in third down stops which took an about face in 2015 and got worse in 2016. And, it may get worse due to the D-line decimation from 2016 continues due to offf field incidents, Sacks were non-existent, tackles for loses tumbled and the number of 20+ yard plays allowed per game skyrocketed since 2014. Fortunately, the offense slightly improved their scoring to make up the difference in 2015 and MSU got lucky a couple of times (the Ducks & scUM). Special teams stunk since Snyder arrived and Tressel became Co-cordinator.

    OFF FEILD ATTRITION increased. 2015 – 2016attrition and graduation. Up to three more 2016 starters may depart before their eligibility expires: Yeah, we all knew Malik McDowell was a top three pick and gone. Auston Robertson is gone and Demitrius Cooper may be next for lack of common sense in a tricky tack offence (spitting is not ticking tack). LB Jon Reschke is gone because of a toxic locker room? Perhaps one or two of the three unnamed alleged sexual assault suspended players may not return to the field with the defense,

    MSU Football program may win the East Division once in the next five years if there’s a THE BLOOD LETTING in 2017 IMHO, If MSU is [so-so] in 2017, the problems will continue as frustration mounts, Coach Dantonio and Mark Hollis have to terminate some coaching contracts and take some scholarships away this year. I hope Coach Dantonio can determine which birds in the nest desreve protecting, which staff members are developing talent and fostering a culture he and the MSU alum can be proud of tomorrow. Today, the news headlines make me believe I would have my head in the sand if I said “Remain calm, all is well,.. all is well.” everything is under control.

    • 89 Chemistry writes:
      May 6th, 20171:50 pmat

      Most of what I have to contribute in reply is on-the-field context.

      Actually, the offense has been scoring fewer points for two years running. Scoring was phenomenal in 2014; okay in 2015; and poor in 2016. Yards per game went up in 2016 — although 2015 was just as good if one throws out the Alabama game.

      Looking at conference game results, the D did better, on average, than the offense. Unfortunately, the D’s best games were either those essentially out of reach (WI, MI, OSU) or too easy to lose (RU) for MSU 2016 on an average day. At its worst, the D was reponsible for a loss (IL) and turned the offense’s best game into a historic loss (NW). (The offense was to blame for not beating Indiana in regulation, and mostly to blame for the Maryland loss. (Penn State was a “team effort” in the bad sense.))

      Special Teams S&P+ was 43rd nationally in 2016 — a surprisingly far cry from awful. Geiger was in the B1G’s upper third in field goal percentage. MSU was third in B1G net punting and in the B1G’s upper half in kickoff return average. The new kickers and remaining returners will need to get better in 2017, though — and kick coverage better still.

      There is something from your last paragraph about which I am unclear, JaB. What do you mean by “take some scholarships away this year”? Please explain.

      • JustABum writes:
        May 7th, 20173:35 amat

        Below is my reply posted last night that found the trash:

        Take away a few more scholarships comment requires little explanation. Repeated “Red Lock” visitors and others whom are toxins to the locker room are distractions MSU can do without.

        89, if you honestly believe punching holes in a couple of insignificant defensive statistical categories is a good argument for the 2016 defense not being a …. HUGE… step down from Narduzzi’s top-ten defenses of 2012-’15, then I am going to return to my card game of crazy eights with my 12 year old daughter.

        • 89 Chemistry writes:
          May 7th, 20172:10 pmat

          There are other interpretations of what “take some scholarships away”. One is the way Alabama takes scholarships away from non-vital players as a result of over-signing. (Should the Title IX Three all remain on the team, MSU will have more than 85 scholarships promised for the fall and will have to do something like that.) Another interpretation is that MSU might have to make do with less than 85 scholarships for punitive reasons.

          I neither said nor implied that MSU’s defense was comparable in any way to Narduzzi’s final few MSU defenses. The significance or insignificance of the surprising (to me, anyway) offensive/defensive performances, compared to how other teams averaged against each MSU B1G foe in 2016, is for each Member to decide.

  • 89 Chemistry writes:
    May 5th, 20172:51 pmat

    * Solari, yesterday: “[T]he limited access we had last week with [football] players showed they are trying to do a better job of spending time with teammates they don’t normally hang around with. Many of them said they feel they need to learn where everyone is coming from, and they seemed to be having heated and heart-to-heart meetings all semester.”

    * Solari, yesterday: “The players I talked to [last] Friday really were promoting Damion Terry’s QB talents in an unsolicited manner. I would say he’s the No. 2 at this point, especially because he practiced more than deWeaver did with his back injury this spring (albeit Terry also was in a limited capacity). And five years in MSU’s offense allows for more knowledge than 1 1/2 years. But deWeaver has the talent.”

    * I find this a pleasant surprise:
    http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-golf/spec-rel/050417aaa.html

    * The softball series at IN has been moved back one day:
    http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/w-softbl/spec-rel/050517aaa.html

    * Spartan Baseball is in progress. The game might be on BTN@Go, but can alos be followed here:
    http://www.msuspartans.com/gametracker/launch/gt_mbasebl.html?event=1530328&school=msu&sport=mbasebl&camefrom=&startschool=&

  • USMC Retired writes:
    May 5th, 20174:23 pmat

    Life do get complicated!

  • Ghost Of Biggie writes:
    May 5th, 20177:01 pmat

    I don’t know the exact number but I once recall Joe Rexrode saying in an article that there are over 100 players involved in he program including those not on athletic scholarship. Athletes are scattered all over campus and have the same oversight in their free time that ordinary students do (that is little or none). The campus culture toward binge drinking is the same as it has been since my days on campus. You all have been there and done that. And know what I mean. What percentage of non athletes get hammered regularly on weekends. Raging hormones in the HS and college years as well as our societiy’s attitude of sexual activity is ok unless one partner is coerced or under the age of 18 lincrease the possibility of something going awry. A better question might be, wha percentage of the age cohort in general find themselves in the same plight as the publicized athletes or is it the fishbowl athletes are put in that makes it seem the coach has lost control. The problem is obvious and larger than an athletic program. The real question is what would it take for any coach to totally control the behavior of his athletes to prevent bad behavior and would anyone accept it?

    • USMC Retired writes:
      May 6th, 20173:44 amat

      Article I looked at yesterday – someplace, can’t remember where, delineated how the battle of the sexes in high schools is actually that these days; mix that with booze or other intoxicants and voila: nothing good ever happens after midnight

    • JerseyJohn writes:
      May 6th, 20178:28 amat

      here’s the difference and why this argument falls flat. on a campus with 20,000 woman most star athletes have a certain amount of women throwing themselves at them. you really don’t have to work hard to get a “date”. with that in mind, anyone who forces himself on a woman, in my opinion, is an animal.

      • USMC Retired writes:
        May 6th, 20179:48 amat

        Maybe in your stardom as an athlete this was correct; nothing like it did I ever see except Bubba in his White caddy. You are totally confused about the woman throwing themselves at athletes – that was a phenomenon before women lib

        • 89 Chemistry writes:
          May 6th, 20171:35 pmat

          My observations contradict yours — although it must be said that it depends on the athlete and his specific subculture. And though it is not nice to point this out, I am a darn slight closer in age to the current generation of athletes than pretty much anyone here.

    • 89 Chemistry writes:
      May 6th, 20171:30 pmat

      The difference in Cooper’s case is that he agreed, in court, to (among other things) not drink alcohol. Is getting arrested and jail time so blase a thing with some athletes that they cannot behave themselves for six months after being warned in order to play a game they love for a free education — and damage their NFL prospects to boot?

  • USMC Retired writes:
    May 6th, 20173:49 amat

    Now this is so funny it’s just sad because A) he did it and b) paper reported it and c) Mlive copied it.*

    http://www.mlive.com/sports/2017/05/former_oregon_tight_end_escape.html#incart_river_index

    *and probably D) that I brought it to TUS – Must have a #DUCKWall out there

    • 79 Spartan writes:
      May 6th, 201712:55 pmat

      Just goes to prove my sister’s (MSU class of 1976) admonishment to me before I left for MSU, “I didn’t do drugs because I was afraid I’d like them and having seen people who did like them, I didn’t want that to happen to me.”

  • Kindle writes:
    May 6th, 201710:41 amat

    Red Wings hire Adam Nightingale as assistant coach/video.
    Adam is a native of Cheboygan, Michigan. His father, Ron, was a great detective who worked for me.

    http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/05/red_wings_hire_adam_nightingal.html

    • 79 Spartan writes:
      May 6th, 201712:55 pmat

      That’s just plain cool that you know his Dad.

  • 79 Spartan writes:
    May 6th, 20171:12 pmat

    As ’89 pointed out (thank you) with Solari’s tweets, my gut feeling has been for a long time (read Capt’n Kirk era as a prime example of the way it should always occur) was that the program needs to have a mentoring, kinda big brother sort of dimension, because the “Dantonio culture” would get transmitted in a truer and more impactful way. It’s good to read that Solari gets the sense that it is happening and in an organic manner. This is a good thing to see written, especially considering the source, IMHO.

    • USMC Retired writes:
      May 6th, 20171:32 pmat

      Totally agree, especially with this Typer

      • 89 Chemistry writes:
        May 6th, 20171:47 pmat

        I could be wrong, but my takeaway from the intensified-communication comments is that some non-seniors have decided to assert some leadership themselves. I look forward to seeing who the first couple of game captains are — and whether Lewerke is not a permanent captain along with Frey and Brian Allen.

        Things still look bad for the program short-term, but there is some hope — even for this fall.

  • USMC Retired writes:
    May 7th, 20177:50 amat

    Tigers lose to the A’s after being up 5-2 end of 5 – Ausmus leaves Zim…….in, even though he’s already given up 2 solo shots, until he gives up another (I’m assuming a 2 run HR) and the Tiger’s closer CANNOT and takes the lose in the 9th. Gotta say the hitters didn’t take advantage of early baserunners to get more than 5 runs, but this lose is attributable to (wait for it, it’s a big surprise) PITCHING

  • 89 Chemistry writes:
    May 7th, 20172:16 pmat

    * Maybe this is what Jeff had in mind regarding MSU sports journalism:
    http://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/graham-couch/2017/05/06/graham-couch-michigan-state-womens-golf/312233001/

    * MSU Baseball split with 3rd-place Iowa, 2-3 and 2-1, on Friday and Saturday. Today’s game is on BTN2Go, and can also be followed here:
    http://www.msuspartans.com/gametracker/launch/gt_mbasebl.html?event=1530331&school=msu&sport=mbasebl&camefrom=&startschool=&

    * MSU Softball split at Indiana this weekend, 0-1 and 6-5. The third game is scheduled for tomorrow at 1 PM ET. Go Green!

    • 89 Chemistry writes:
      May 7th, 20172:47 pmat

      After closing to 5-4, the Spartans lost to Iowa, 9-4.

      Looking forward to some Spartan Golf Monday-Wednesday.

  • I Believe writes:
    May 8th, 20177:10 amat

    Michael Geiger gave the MSU faithful (and classmates) one last windmill celebration during Commencement …

    http://michiganstate.247sports.com/Bolt/Michael-Geiger-celebrates-graduating-only-way-he-knows-how-52670032

  • 79 Spartan writes:
    May 8th, 20177:22 amat

    Furthering the thought on the Dantonio culture: as I was trimming my hedge early yesterday morning, I got to thinking about how Coach D might have gotten caught up in the “Chase It” mentality be promoted a few years back in that he subordinated his ethos of first class character to 5*****/4**** recruit priority. I can see the debate going along the lines of, “He’s not got the best character but…” fill in the blank – he’s faster, or more athletic, or dominating at his position, etc., etc. “So let’s take a chance on him.”

    A few years later, he finds that several of his recruits did not buy into what he was selling after all: the chip on the shoulder, we’ll show them, we believe in each other, humble but hungry zeitgeist like the teams during the No Fly Zone era, players who bought into it in a big way. Combine that with the loss of Narduzzi, who may have been a really good judge of character, better than we gave him credit for when he was here and some position/recruiting coaches that are not as good a judge and we wind up with a sizable group of problem players.

    Anyway, I believe that goose will come from it. I really do.

    • 79 Spartan writes:
      May 8th, 20177:24 amat

      Really? I closed this.

      • 79 Spartan writes:
        May 8th, 20177:25 amat

        Italics, that js. Jeesh.

        • I Believe writes:
          May 8th, 20177:27 amat

          Consider it closed. The forward slash goes before the “i” …

          • 79 Spartan writes:
            May 8th, 20177:46 amat

            Oops. Thanks, IB.

  • 79 Spartan writes:
    May 8th, 20177:25 amat

    Test

  • 79 Spartan writes:
    May 8th, 20177:48 amat

    That should read, “good”, not goose, fricking spell check.

  • USMC Retired writes:
    May 8th, 201710:00 amat

    Ah, another accolade for the spell check.

    I really like your hedge trimming thought process. Let’s just hope that the ‘chasing it’ attitude doesn’t continue to involve marginal character recruits. I am not saying all 5 star football recruits are marginal character kids, but how does ‘Bama keep plowing that filed. I guess because they can weed out the marginal character 5 stars because they truly do have the pick of the litter. If one looks at the the Meyer’s record of foibles at Acorn and Croc’s, Urbane had some serious difficulty in separating the wheat from the chaff.


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